SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There are certain things my wayward wife says that make my blood boil, and "I understand" is right at the top of the list. No, you don’t understand. You heard the words I said, sure. You recognized I was angry and saw that I was hurting. But that’s not the same thing as actually grasping what you did to me. "I understand" has just become this empty phrase used to shut down a conversation. It’s a verbal nod, a way to acknowledge I spoke without actually absorbing a single word of it.

If you understand, then spell it out for me. Tell me you understand that I don’t even know which parts of our nineteen-year marriage were real anymore. Tell me you get why I can’t look back at nearly two decades of memories without wondering what the hell was happening behind my back. Every new lie doesn't just hurt in the present; it reaches backward and poisons everything that came before it. And please, tell me why "I don’t remember" is always your convenient escape route when you somehow remember every single detail that makes you look less guilty. Seriously.

It drives me crazy when you say "it didn’t mean anything," like that’s supposed to comfort me. It just means you were willing to destroy me, our family, and our entire life for something you now claim was worthless. And calling it a "mistake" is an insult. Forgetting an appointment is a mistake. An affair is thousands of deliberate choices, the secret messages, the planning, the lies, the meetings, the sex, and then coming home to look me in the eye, letting me live a lie you created. For almost two decades.

Then there's "I never meant to hurt you." That means nothing. You knew exactly what it would do to me if I found out, and that's the exact reason you hid it. Or "I was unhappy." You were allowed to be unhappy. You were allowed to talk to me, demand change, or leave. You weren't entitled to secretly build another relationship while I stayed loyal to a marriage you'd already trashed. In fact now I find out this started only one year into our relationship.

Don't tell me "we both made mistakes" either. That’s just cowardly, par for the course I guess. I made mistakes, sure. I could be distant, angry, or difficult. But none of that made you cheat. Relationship problems belong to both of us, but the choices to have affairs belong entirely to you.

And when you say "I'm sorry I cheated and lied," it sounds absurd. You aren't apologizing for a single moment. You’re apologizing for years of deception, repeated choices, shattered trust, and every lie told after the fact to save your own skin. Hearing the blanket statement just makes me feel like I’m talking to a brick wall.

I want the truth, no deserve it. I want depth and real reflection. I want something that doesn't have to be dragged out of you kicking and screaming like a child. I want to hear what you’ve actually realized without me having to explain your own behavior to you. I need to know you’ve sat alone with what you did and followed the damage all the way to the bottom, instead of just memorizing the right lines from therapy, books, or support forums. Regurgitation is brutal and insulting to my core.

"I’m trying" is another trigger. I see the therapy, the crying, and the effort. But sometimes it just makes me angrier. What are you trying so hard to become? Honest? Safe? Capable of basic empathy? Someone who doesn't lie until they're cornered? That’s not some massive, heroic transformation. That is the bare minimum. That is the person I thought I married nineteen years ago.

When you say "you keep bringing it up, and I have told you everything" yes, I do. Because it’s not resolved. The story keeps shifting. Every time I think I’m on solid ground, I discover it was just the newest verion of the truth. I’m not repeating myself for fun, I’m doing it because nothing seems to actually land. I’m still waiting for proof that you comprehend something beyond the fact that I’m upset. How about being proactive and stop waiting until I'm upset and spiraling?

"You’re never going to forgive me" feels less like remorse and more like another demand. Now I’m supposed to stop hurting so you can feel hopeful? The conversation instantly becomes about your fear of me leaving, instead of the reasons I’m considering it in the first place. The need for resolution and reassurance kills me. I DON'T KNOW....

And "I’m a terrible person" maybe you feel that way, but collapsing into shame doesn't help me. It just forces me into a spot where I’m expected to reassure the person who blew up my life. I’m not asking you to hate yourself. I’m asking you to face yourself. There’s a massive difference.

You can't change the past, but you can stop lying right now. You can stop minimizing and getting defensive when the consequences of your choices are laid out. Stop using therapy speak as a shield. Stop saying "I understand" and start showing me.

Real understanding changes how a person speaks, the questions they ask, what they volunteer, and how they react when their spouse is triggered. It creates honesty before a confrontation, empathy without being begged for it, and action without needing to be managed. It isn't just saying, "I understand why you feel that way."

It’s being able to say: "I get that I didn't just cheat on you. I took away your choice to live the life you thought you were living. I let you invest in a marriage I was actively violating. I stole years of your reality, ruined your memories, your sense of safety, and your trust in your own gut. And then, after D-Day, every single omission and new lie just repeated the original betrayal all over again because I kept putting my comfort over your right to the truth."

That’s understanding. Everything else is just white noise.

"You’re never going to forgive me" is such a terrible attitude.

It’s so defeatist. How about trying to earn forgiveness anyway? How about living with integrity for its own sake, and not the promise of a reward? Especially when that reward is validation from a man, which is likely at the root of all of her issues.

I’m so sorry you’re suffering Gemmy. Sending support.

My xWW’s therapy talk dismissal words were "that makes sense". Dead, sterile noises where tender care and bravery were needed. Plausible deniability for utter lack of empathy and honesty.

She’s just not getting outside of herself.

What would happen if you printed this out and handed it to her?

I gotta ask Gemmy, why do you even want to stay with your WW? Besides all the sunk costs that is. I mean, you have ONE life and you can spend your life with one woman, and your WW will likely NEVER be the woman you'd want to grow old with.

And yes, I get it, the sunk costs are huge. From 19 years with her, to even these struggle sessions where you'd like for her to understand even a fraction of the pain she would cause you. You're understandably in so much pain that aint seeming to go away, at least she can spend a year or two suffering in this prison along with you. But man, your WW most likely aint never gonna get it.

But a much much better world awaits you if you left. You'd likely heal that much faster not being injured again and again with your WW's continuing nonsense.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:32 PM, Tuesday, July 14th]

What would happen if you printed this out and handed it to her?

I am quite confident his WW has read everything Gemmy has posted (at least here.)

He has written so eloquently and plainly about his feelings, suffering, thoughts and desires these past few months that for his WW not to understand or "get it" could only lead to the conclusion that she is somehow enjoying his suffering in some perverse way. While she may have claimed to enjoy the "rush" or "addiction" of her affairs over the years and it was only an addiction thus she "never meant to hurt" Gemmy, the length and depths of her betrayal show otherwise. One AP since even before the wedding wasn't enough for his WW, she searched out and got herself a 2nd AP... 3 men in her life at once? Sure, she really loved Gemmy. She loved what Gemmy could give and provide to her... nothing more.

After reading an innumerable amount of stories of infidelity along with my own personal experiences, I think it just boils down to there are sluts and manwhores out there and most are pretty good at hiding who they really are. People that will never be satisfied with just one partner. The way their brains work they always need more and they just don't care who they hurt... spouses, their own children, family or friends, it doesn't matter to them -- only that their base needs being met. The Betrayeds were just unlucky or blinded by love not to recognize and picked these people to fall in love with.

A bit simplistic? Probably and I'm sure someone will come along and point out FOO, mental health issues, etc. to show that I have a cave-man viewpoint and use flowery language to show just how deep and complex infidelity really is and everyone can change. But in the end, does it really matter? After everything comes out and talked to death in months of therapy and counseling, the utter destruction and pain never really goes away.. a betrayed just has to learn to "accept it"... talk about compartmentalizing.. that's compartmentalizing something.

Sorry, bad day at work... but Gemmy you have really shown courage and bravery in even attempting a limited reconciliation [never got an update when I asked how the divorce is coming a few weeks ago. I believe you did file and stated a number of times you wanted to divorce... divorce and then maybe reconcile? Is that your plan?] I would highly advise reading InkHulk's threads. He too, bravely fought for reconciliation, but it became clear his WW wasn't willing to do the work. I think I once pointed out to InkHulk in one of his threads where everything ultimately was heading (which he rightfully chastised me for) but when a wayward isn't willing, it is pointless... I think unfortunately you are in a similar position. Godspeed.

Yes here it takes one year separated for divorce. My divorce is final October 28 2026 regardless of reconciliation.

Gemmy said she left. So I wouldn't be so certain about whether she's reading his posts or not.

Now, if my BH was expressing his deepest, honest feelings in such a clear and eloquent way, my eyes would be glued to my computer screen. I long for that. But I'm also at a place where I have processed the shame and can engage with those feelings without feeling overwhelmingly terrible about myself and being defensive in response. I was willing and able to get here. Not every WS is.

That's why I asked what would happen if she read these words.

I think you are at a place where you are evaluating whether she's willing and ableto get there, where she can hear and understand and engage with your feelings, as well as how long you are willing to be in pain while you wait for her to get there, Gemmy. There are a lot of people here bearing witness to that immense pain, and are recommending separation because they wish for relief for you, whether or not that's not the outcome you really desire. Again, the choice remains yours alone to make, however long it takes, however painful the decision making process is.

Gemmy,
When I said that responding to your posts is somewhat uncomfortable because it hits a bit too close home for my taste, I didn’t think to see such a similar reaction to what I am still living.

Detached or not, does not make it easy, maybe easier, but not a nice mirror.

There are certain things my wayward wife says that make my blood boil, and "I understand" is right at the top of the list. No, you don’t understand.

Yes, this comes out every time she wants to run away from accountability. I consider it her logout password.

It drives me crazy when you say "it didn’t mean anything," like that’s supposed to comfort me. It just means you were willing to destroy me, our family, and our entire life for something you now claim was worthless.

It always stings. Meant nothing, but you threw everything under the bus. Every single time an AP showed up.

My life dreams and family also meant less than nothing, as she kept demanding that I would give it all up for her, while she was sacrificing everything I thought we had to her current Affair Partner.

Nice 👍

Then there's "I never meant to hurt you." That means nothing. You knew exactly what it would do to me if I found out, and that's the exact reason you hid it. Or "I was unhappy."

The second is like a pass for the first.
However the keeping of secrets is telling more than the platitudes about her awareness of the devastation she consciously caused.

Don't tell me "we both made mistakes" either.

This is the only one I don’t get constantly. I get a variant "you failed me too". Because if I would forego my whole life immediately to be available for her in presence instead of working for a better future, she obviously wouldn’t have ever cheated.

Although both the trauma, ptsd and starting a life from scratch in a foreign nation, her country, to stop her constant cheating, abandoning everything as she demanded, also mean "I failed her". Because her life would have been easier if I were coming to her already packed with wealth. While I had to start from zero.

In conclusion: her cheating = my fault. Her difficulty in guilt and remorse = also my fault.

I didn’t live up to her expectations.

And when you say "I'm sorry I cheated and lied," it sounds absurd. You aren't apologizing for a single moment. You’re apologizing for years of deception, repeated choices, shattered trust, and every lie told after the fact to save your own skin. Hearing the blanket statement just makes me feel like I’m talking to a brick wall.

Twenty years, half my life. Just started to confess and there’s ton of lies still standing. Another catch all ‘apology’.

I want the truth, no deserve it. I want depth and real reflection. I want something that doesn't have to be dragged out of you kicking and screaming like a child. I want to hear what you’ve actually realized without me having to explain your own behavior to you. I need to know you’ve sat alone with what you did and followed the damage all the way to the bottom, instead of just memorizing the right lines from therapy, books, or support forums. Regurgitation is brutal and insulting to my core.

It seem unreasonable to even ask for the truth. They can make you feel like the abuser for demanding it.

"I’m trying" is another trigger. I see the therapy, the crying, and the effort.

I also get this.
But rarely I see any attempt to come around, unless it’s forced.

When you say "you keep bringing it up, and I have told you everything" yes, I do. Because it’s not resolved. The story keeps shifting.

Check.
Bonus points for "it was years ago "

"You’re never going to forgive me" feels less like remorse and more like another demand.

When I hear this I tend to laugh.

Which version am I supposed to forgive? Today’s one? Yesterday’s? 6 months ago? Last year’s? 18 years ago? 20?

Multiply this for each affair partner I know of, not just the ones she confessed, it’s becoming a guessing game!

{And the version to forgive for affair partner number 4 is……!}

And "I’m a terrible person" maybe you feel that way, but collapsing into shame doesn't help me.

And expecting comfort. Even when you told her you are not a terrible person but you did terrible things to me.

You can't change the past, but you can stop lying right now. You can stop minimizing and getting defensive when the consequences of your choices are laid out. Stop using therapy speak as a shield. Stop saying "I understand" and start showing me.

All I ever asked. Feels like asking for the moon.

Real understanding changes how a person speaks, the questions they ask, what they volunteer, and how they react when their spouse is triggered. It creates honesty before a confrontation, empathy without being begged for it, and action without needing to be managed. It isn't just saying, "I understand why you feel that way."

It’s being able to say: "I get that I didn't just cheat on you. I took away your choice to live the life you thought you were living. I let you invest in a marriage I was actively violating. I stole years of your reality, ruined your memories, your sense of safety, and your trust in your own gut. And then, after D-Day, every single omission and new lie just repeated the original betrayal all over again because I kept putting my comfort over your right to the truth."

That’s understanding. Everything else is just white noise.

I have no idea if me or you will ever get understanding from our waywards.

Can’t even offer you much advice here. Not about that at least.
But I do understand.

@MORBS

I do not know if it is the shame or discomfort but she will not truly read it. Read it maybe but hear it certainly not. I wrote the most heartfelt letter to my past self, then read it to her with tears soaking my shirt collar. I know she listened but I hope she didn't truly hear it because she looked at me with dry eyes and stated "nice letter". My therapist cried when I read it to him, but not a tear from her. I think I may have posted it here in JFO.

@Gemmy

Can I ask why you are still engaging with her? Post after post the evidence against her piles up. She is clearly a remorseless and cruel abuser.

I feel it gets to a point where engaging is merely masochism.

She is not heartless, and I apologize if I make her out to be. I generally write when I am in need of shorting things out. Sometimes in anger, so I must say I believe she is trying in her best way she currently can. She is broken deeply, and I want to want to help her. I fell in love with someone that may have been hiding but I am quite perceptive, I know she is good deep deep deep down.

No decision has been made yet, and it feels a bit masochistic to me as well some days, but I will try for as long as I can hold on.

I do not know if it is the shame or discomfort but she will not truly read it. Read it maybe but hear it certainly not. I wrote the most heartfelt letter to my past self, then read it to her with tears soaking my shirt collar. I know she listened but I hope she didn't truly hear it because she looked at me with dry eyes and stated "nice letter". My therapist cried when I read it to him, but not a tear from her. I think I may have posted it here in JFO.

Was she diagnosed as emotionally unavailable by chance?

I am met with the same reaction when I tried to write her letters (had to read them to her for she would keep them around but avoid reading unless asked to).

She is emotionally unavailable, when emotions start to hit her, her face goes blank, and she "switches " to some kind of dissociated "logical" beast (there is really not much logic there, but her emotions shut down, is a visible transformation)

When she gets like that she can tell the cruelest shit, in a most nonsensical and uncaring manner, stuff that’s hard to believe someone would tell a stranger.

The only result is that I stopped.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 8:14 PM, Tuesday, July 14th]

Is that shame/discomfort/dissociation something that either of your WWs are working on in therapy? That's the only way I could see there being hope

'Course if the IC is telling her "You don't need to worry about your BH's feelings or healing at all; only yours" maybe even that isn't enough

She is broken deeply, and I want to want to help her.

Caution, friend. This sentiment can get you utterly stuck. It doesn’t sound to me like she wants to be helped. It sounds to me like she just wants to survive at all costs, and you are expendable in that calculus. You are willing to lay down your life for her, even after this betrayal. She doesn’t even have a wet eye for your pain. Her brokenness is hers, not yours. Don’t let KISA be your destruction.

I fell in love with someone that may have been hiding but I am quite perceptive, I know she is good deep deep deep down.

All I can say to this is I could have written these words verbatim. And I now know I was wrong.

I think I once pointed out to InkHulk in one of his threads where everything ultimately was heading (which he rightfully chastised me for) but when a wayward isn't willing, it is pointless... I think unfortunately you are in a similar position.

A lot of people had opinions on where my story was going to end up. And none of us has a crystal ball behind these screens. I listened to hikingout and WOES, read DeeplyScared’s (RIP) story, and all of them took time to come to a remorseful state, WOES said it took her a year. DeeplyScared did not follow the straight and narrow early on. There is unpredictability to how waywards will respond in the long run to this shitshow.

That said, it does not mean in the slightest that that continued pain inflicted on the betrayed is justified. The ends do not justify the means. But let’s give our friend Gemmy the respect that his story is his own and it is not fully written yet.

She is broken deeply, and I want to want to help her.
I know she is good deep deep deep down.

Have you spoken to your IC about codependency?

I’m pretty sure I’ve read all your threads and replies and am up to date.

Has anyone or had the thought crossed your mind that you maybe are not dealing with just a WS? I think it would behoove you to get her to also see a psychiatrist? I just read all this and I keep thinking there’s more going on in her head. I have plenty experience with mental illness, but I’m also not going to armchair diagnose her based off of some posts.

[This message edited by OhItsYou at 10:33 PM, Tuesday, July 14th]